Hello, everyone. Thank you so much for joining us today on “This needs to be said”. And our friend, attorney Peter Daigle has joined us and I’m big smiles because we shared a lot of good news before coming on air. And we’re about to share more good news with you about the world of bankruptcy. Some things you can expect. And I’m coming today to ask a question. I’m not sure we’ve covered it, cause it seems new to me, but I wonder if anyone else has wondered about the meeting of the bill collectors and it’s called a 3 41 meeting. I think so our friend Peter is going to help us understand what that is and what happens during that meeting. Welcome back, Peter, how are you?
Thanks Katherine. Thank you so much for that kind of introduction. So let me play a little bit about what that meeting is. So, the legal term is, 3 41 and the technical term is, is from 11 us code 3 41. It’s a, it’s a bankruptcy code that’s used, I’m not sure that matters, but that’s the nickname is 3 41 or also referred to as meeting of creditors. Okay. So the idea when you file bankruptcy is it has to be done in good faith. And so, what that means that anybody who’s an interested party, that being a creditor has a chance to object to, to the bankruptcy. Okay. So they’re offered an opportunity to come to a meeting and it’s been on zoom, for the last year and a half. And so, it’s a lot easier, to conduct these now, but if it’s, if you have any credited debt or that, maybe a little bit, we’ll say shady, for instance, let’s say that on the eval of a bankruptcy, you know, that you’re going to be filing yet.
You decide that, you know, you need some extra money and you go out and you charge off cash advances to all of your credit cards or you decide, you know, you want to go out and buy a big screen television set, on the Eve of a bankruptcy. And so it gives the credit as an opportunity to question you as to, Hey, you know, why did you do this, on the Eve of the bankruptcy or even worse Why did you transfer, some property to a family member Why did you, you know, what about that big boat that you own that, you know, closing on your schedules So it gives an opportunity for the person who wants to file bankruptcy, to be questioned by creditors that, feel that they may have been taken advantage of unfair. Okay. Now, as a practical matter, it’s probably only one out of every hundred bank of C’s that I file and that accreditor actually shows up. Oh, wow. Okay. So for the most part, MasterCard, visa, American express, those kinds of, charges, they don’t bother. Okay. Alyssa, something blatant like thousands of dollars in cash advances. No. In three months before the bankruptcy, it would have to be something quite a bit. Okay. But for the most part, the financial institutions just write the debt off and they can’t be bothered. Okay. Now. Okay. What would the time, one
Of the things, oh, what’s one of the things that may have happened while I’m one of the creditors have come, cause I’m thinking this is scary. I’m just thinking of this space. It’s scary. Usually, you know, when you see it, so, oh,
Cute. And you go out and you go on a shopping spree, on the Eve of a bankruptcy goes, and then you file bankruptcy. You know, you can expect the creditors to say, hey, what’s going on here You know, last month you went to best buy. You went to Kay, yours, you went to, you know, and you, you, or you, you know, you bought a snowmobile, you know, or you went out and bought a bunch of stuff that, you know, you didn’t need, and now you want to file bankruptcy. Not so fast. Yeah.
Okay. Gotcha. Gotcha. Gotcha. Okay. So,
now, so that’s for the financial institutions. Now, sometimes people borrow money from family, friends, or lenders in general, and they don’t appreciate, getting, you know, discharged in bankruptcy. So there aren’t happy. Okay. And so it gives them a chance to come and object, to the bank of the also and say, Hey, listen, you know, you promised me you’re going to pay me back. And, and you didn’t, and then, you know, you took my money and you went out and bought a boat with it or something like that. And you have the boat and you didn’t disclose that you had the boat. So, you know, for example ,it’s people, it’s creditors that feel like they got, the seeds. Okay. Now, if the average debtor, the average person that wants to file bankruptcy is just doing the best they can.
And they’re living off their credit cards because they don’t have a job or the unemployment’s not enough, or whatever the case may be and they’re acting in faith then, then it’s going to go through, but it’s when there’s monkey business going on. Okay. Yeah. That, that credit is, can object. Now, if somebody does something that’s fraudulent, then the creditor can object to that charge. So let’s say for a second, somebody went out and got cash advances of $10,000 a month before they filed bankruptcy. So they would have an opportunity to object to the discharge of that debt. Okay. So, that means that the $10,000 that they use to in cash advances, was, can never be forgiven the bankruptcy and had to pay it back or pay a portion back.
Okay. Is that because of the pattern, the way it looks, how did
It came about okay. Okay, and so bad behavior does not get rewarded in bankruptcy. Okay. Okay. That’s the best. And I don’t want to scare people about
It. Okay. I didn’t want to scare people, but I know that if I’ve been in that room before and I’m like, oh my gosh, you know, and you do feel bad because, well, I feel bad because I didn’t mean for this to happen. So I’m kind of marking for the bad person and shaking my finger, who tried to get away with something. And, you know, for the average person, like you’re saying, you, you feel convicted. Like, I, I shouldn’t be here. This wasn’t what I planned to do, but it is a tool to reset. So I was just kind of, yeah. So I would
Say to you, my office files, hundreds of bankruptcies a year and probably only one or two for a year.
Does somebody object to the discharge ability of the debt that’ brought out, in the 3 41 hearing
Now, is this okay is this a time when I’m meeting the judge because I actually don’t even remember. I haven’t seen the judge,
So the 3 41 meeting is conducted by the, the trustee. Okay. Okay. So the trustee in bankruptcy is a private lawyer in the case of a chapter seven case then paid by the court to try to recover assets. So the trustees is not really too concerned about whether or not there is any fraud in, on the credit cards or charges. That’s a job with the credit card companies to bring to attention of the hearing. Bankruptcy trustee at the 3 41 hearing is looking for undisclosed assets. So the second part of the 3 41 meeting, in addition to the creditors who can question the, the data about charges on the credit cards, the trustee also gets to ask questions. And what the trustee is looking for is an asset that wasn’t disclosed either mistakenly or willingly. So if the, if the, if the, the, you know, we’ll call them the dead or the client fails to disclose that they own a condo in Aruba, and there’s no mortgage on it, for instance, and the trying to find bankruptcy, if the trustee finds out about it, they’re going to take that asset. Okay. So the trustee is looking for assets that are not exempt, or they’re not protected by bankruptcy. So, you know, in bankruptcy, you get to protect your, you know, your, most of your assets for the average person, your house, your car, your furniture, your jewelry, your clothes, you know, your retirement accounts, but doesn’t get protect things like luxury boats, or, you know, brand new, Winnebago’s all paid for Mercedes or airplanes. So testing to make sure that then
Heard of, and not that I know anyone who’s done this, but of course the water cooler talk about bankruptcy is, oh yeah, go and buy up everything that you want and then file bankruptcy. So what you’re telling me today is somebody didn’t know what they were talking about and probably have never done that because this is what I want people about. Not because that, this is what I want people about getting information from our friends who are not experts in the field. And it just sounds, it’s almost as cliché – ish as actually a true thing. You can charge. You can, take part of what you spend on a meal for a client to deduct from your taxes. You have to understand what you’re doing, but that’s not wrong, but someone just deliberately going, they’re going to file bankruptcy. And they are going to buy things that they think they’ll get to keep. And then they file bankruptcy to keep those things. That’s not. And I, I think I just jumbled all my words together, audience forgive me, but you don’t go buy stuff. And then think you can keep it after filing a bankruptcy. That’s not what you can do. That’s not ethical. That’s not right. And I’ve heard people say
The item, but just be clear if it’s luxury items. So if you’re, you know, if you’re in depth as straight, did you buy gas, okay credit card and you filed bankruptcy. The credit card company is not going to object to that. But if you go out and buy luxury items, okay. And you know what luxury items are, okay yes, it does. And you, and you act with, with not good faith, bad faith, then I have a problem, but that’s anything is in life. Anyway, if you, if you start doing things with bad faith, you’re going to get caught. So
It’s eventually going to happen. I was thinking, as you were talking, I was like, oh, shame on that person or people who think that they can do that. Because bank bankruptcy, when we started this conversation several years ago, we were talking about, you know, how people feel in their emotions about, you know, having to come face to face with this wrong, and it’s not wrong for life to happen. This is a way to navigate and reset your-self and we want it bankruptcy and attorneys to be a good word and a resource for people who need it. And so I’m shaking my virtual finger at people who would even try to abuse that, that benefit what’d you call it the benefit.
Let me see. Yeah! sure.
Yeah. So shame on those people who would, who would, take advantage of that like that, but if, you know, people are going to try, but the, the point of this discussion today, and I was curious about, you know, what goes on at a 3 41 meeting, and you did answer for me, it’s a hearing, it’s not a meeting with the judge. So I was wondering about that. One of the other things, and he gets involved
With this dispute when this, when people can’t agree, then you go to the judge,
Have you ever had that happen?
Sure. Yeah. But not bankrupt.
It seems like you would have that worked out before you get there.
Sometimes people, sometimes people get caught in a lie, but a lot of very, very small percentage of the people, 99% of the people out of your listeners are not going to do something who is like transfer their, their ski condo to their brother. And a week later filed bankruptcy. You know, those are the kinds of things that you can’t do, but a good attorney is going to ask you all these questions ahead of time, and he’s not going to file your case, or he’s going to tell you that you have a problem with whatever, you know, before you file, this is all going to get on our questionnaire. We don’t let this happen. Okay. We just, we just don’t. Okay. Well, we, I
Was just, messing around today with a very serious topic because not many people are going to do wrong, but I believe that, especially if you feel like you’re going to get caught and I, in my world, the more, I’m closer to a courtroom, I feel like I’m being watched harder. So I’m going to be more honest. So I don’t know if that’s a common thing, but I know for me, I’m like, I don’t want to stay here. I think they have like a jail behind here somewhere, so I don’t want to get caught. So I’m going to be honest. I am going to give you an opportunity now to share with everyone how to get in touch with you for their own personal
It’s, attorney Peter Daigle at just, you know, 7 7 4 -4 7 0- 4 4 4 6. That’s my direct line, 7 7 4- 4 7 0 -4 446. And I will answer hello when you call that line or you can reach us by email, Daigle law office.com. It’s a way to reach us by email. You can request our book. So, either the Daigle law office.com or call me directly. Okay. Awesome!
Thank you so much, Peter. I always have a great time when I’m talking with you. So thank you for letting me have this topic today until we meet again. All right, bye bye. Bye bye now.